Universal Content citations and chains of reference.

URL as identifier.

Web Service to obtain new citations.

Must be simple and open.

Be Ambitious.

Advertising: Thurs 2-4

rss reader
mms?
think boy think…

EVO Portal Forums

teamcim.comcast.net/manage

entertainment/articles/eonline/2007/07/05/star.jones.article.noap/

Our goal is to only modestly change the format of the XML used for galleries so that the changes to the flash component are minimal.

Custom slideshows are somewhat half-baked at the moment with the inability to easily create links to slideshows from covers, top lists, etc being a fairly large deficiency.

• Cascade
• Slideshow/Photo Gallery Re-factor
• SocialTV
• XDMessage

Consist of:

• Grid
• Typography
• Corner
• Tab
• Table
• List
• Theming

http://172.24.36.33/qcbin/start_a.htm

propogate.sh {changeset}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_object_identifier

Jesse McPherson (14:24:26): so after getting frustrated with the sheer amount of content I ingest through my rss reader and realizing how much overlap, duplicate posts there are, mostly from lifestreaming sites like friendfeed or even plaxo, I thought up the idea that I want to refine and hopefully propose it as an open standard

Jesse McPherson (14:27:06): i want a way to be able to “sign” any piece of content, big or small (blog posts to tweets), and also have a sort of chain of custody or reference, so content can easily be tracked back to its source or referenced by new content that is extending on original ideas

Jesse McPherson (14:27:18): it has to be simple and it has to be open

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:27:23): wait…

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:27:47): how would this help you ingest everything?

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:28:44): [basically you want a citation network… ]

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:28:57): [but i dont’ see how that creates a filter for content..]

Jesse McPherson (14:29:01): by having this data, readers can then use it, so i do a tweet and it is picked up by facebook, plaxo, friendfeed, socialthing, etc. the reader would be able to see that they all have the same originator and can collapse them down to a single post but let you know it came from other feeds as well

Jesse McPherson (14:29:45): also, i’ll be going through my feeds and there will be a post and then like 5 other posts that reference the original, i would prefer that these related posts be sorted so that they are all together

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:29:56): i see what you mean now.

Jesse McPherson (14:30:39): i just started brainstorming it yesterday so its still very rough, but im trying to talk about it with people so they can shoot holes in it

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:30:50): well, there’s a ton of holes.

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:31:01): 1) getting services to conform to some standard

Jesse McPherson (14:31:15): 1) has backing of large corporation

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:31:39): 2) getting blogs to utilize a new way to cite other work with a universale citation.

Jesse McPherson (14:31:43): also once thought out a bit more I want to submit it to the community, i dont want to control htis

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:31:59): 3) getting readers to thread this way.

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:32:06): it’s a method already used in email

Jesse McPherson (14:32:17): its my most ambitious idea yet

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:32:40): my mail server at work addes X-Msg-Ref: server-8.tower-151.messagelabs.com6234396!1

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:32:48): so that it can create threads.

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:33:20): i think it’s actually an easy thing to do in all reality, but there are a few things that you need to do..

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:33:40): 1: create a way to get a unique citation. (start with md5, sha1, etc)

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:34:19): 1a: it’d probably be better if it was symmetric, so you could get back the same thing..

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:34:23): maybe a url is the way to go.

Jesse McPherson (14:34:28): i was thinking the url

Jesse McPherson (14:34:46): but things like tweets dont neccessarily have a unique url for that small piece of content

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:34:47): base64 of url + a hash or something

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:35:02): a hash to verify the citation

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:35:42): then, you need a simple way for people to include the citations and a simple way to decode them (obviously, reversing and verifying the citation is enough)

Jesse McPherson (14:35:53): i was thinking the retrieval of new citations would be through some sort of service, like openid providers, that are based off a spec and can be implemented by anyone

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:36:44): hmm

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:36:50): well, why not this then..

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:37:29): create a site (like tinyurl) which accepts a url and creates a verifiable citation id

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:37:35): make a webservice for it

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:37:51): and then create plugins for wordpress, mephisto and a bunch of other blog engines

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:37:57): whatever ones exist

Jesse McPherson (14:38:21): would probably be fairly easy to build, just need to work out all the details

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:38:27): then, get people to include the citation’s in comments within html at the top of their posts

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:38:42): and in the GUID of their feeds.

Jesse McPherson (14:38:46): i also want to be able to cite single comments in a post

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:39:07): now it’s getting complicated

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:39:11): but i think there’s a simple solution.

Jesse McPherson (14:39:23): me too

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:39:36): do you think leveraging trackbacks would be useful?

Jesse McPherson (14:39:39): this is good stuff though

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (14:39:39): eh..

Jesse McPherson (14:39:51): i was going to look at them, to be honest i dont really know about trackbacks

Jesse McPherson (11:52:23): yt?

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:12:45): yt?

Jesse McPherson (12:12:50): yep

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:12:53): ha

Jesse McPherson (12:13:59): do you know much about Intellectual Property stuff, or anything at all really because I don’t have a clue, i know i can do some research online and i will but i thought it may be easier to ask some people, im also gonna talk to lawyers at work

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:14:18): i don’t know much

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:14:33): what are you trying to get IP rights to?

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:14:35): or retain?

Jesse McPherson (12:14:39): is IP like patenting or anything like that?

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:14:47): well..

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:14:49): it can be.

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:15:01): but it could be copyrights. i think it depends entirely on the work.

Jesse McPherson (12:15:10): that would be a second step, first is making sure im not conflicting with anything else

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:15:23): but, suppose you did something at comcast that you wanted the rights too.

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:15:34): you might not be able to get the rights based on your contract..

Jesse McPherson (12:15:36): im going to talk about that as well

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:15:46): or you might have to apply for the rights.

Jesse McPherson (12:15:52): i want to talk about how i can retain ownership but maybe comcast will sponsor it

Jesse McPherson (12:15:55): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_object_identifier

Jesse McPherson (12:16:38): after i started researching stuff on citation systems i came across this which has a lot of the same concepts

Jesse McPherson (12:17:51): but i think my train of thought was going down a slightly different path

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:22:09): i really like the idea of this.

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:22:28): identifiers that were short and sweet would be better…

Jesse McPherson (12:23:29): i really like your point of making them symmetrical so that they can be easily converted back to a location of a resource, and you could hit a service to get more info if you wanted maybe, i also have an idea on the micro-content

Jesse McPherson (12:23:37): its really simple actually

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:23:44): oh?

Jesse McPherson (12:24:29): use the url hash as it was originally intended, like anchor links, so all you would need is http://www.site.com#idofmicrocontent

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:25:17): but, that will conflict with comments.

Jesse McPherson (12:25:23): how so

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:25:29): well, maybe not..

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:25:49): but, i see alot of people doing “link to this comment” as permalink#idofcomment

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:26:00): so, as long as they retained the microcontent it’d be fine.. i guess

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:26:08): but now, here’s the recursive problem..

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:26:25): how to you get an identifier for something that requires an identifier?

Jesse McPherson (12:27:00): well its possible i guess, also im not looking to necessarily track when data moves, those identifiers would/should be site specific

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:27:00): you obviously can’t feed in permalink#microdot if you wanna generate a microdot.

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:27:14): site specific?

Jesse McPherson (12:27:16): why not?

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:27:41): because GUID isn’t specific enough for RSS

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:27:47): which could potentially solve this problem…

Jesse McPherson (12:28:26): also in lines with the chain of reference (need to find a better name), the identifier would be compounded with that of the content the comment is being made on

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:29:21): consider: all people use the same format for their guids in RSS feeds. then, all content creators attach the guids of referenced articles to their content…

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:29:26): you instantly solve your problem.

Jesse McPherson (12:30:19): well thats kind of exactly what i want to do, create the spec and services for getting these GUIDs but make them mean more than just a random bunch of chars

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:30:36): right.

Jesse McPherson (12:30:52): so my solution solves my problem? lol

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:31:06): but my point was simply… RSS has a GUID that gets abused because it doesn’t specify exactly what goes in there.

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:31:09): it’s a shortcoming of RSS

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:31:41): 2 things can happen. In the NEXT RSS they standardize it, and you promote the use of it and the use of GUID citations in blog posts.

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:32:15): OR, you create some brand new thing that is compatible with any sort of feed that may or may not be adopted as part of a standard syndication practice.

Jesse McPherson (12:32:29): great idea on how i should try an drive this

Jesse McPherson (12:33:00): focus on including it with another standard will do great things in terms of getting it adopted

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:33:36): meeting time.

Andrew Gwozdziewycz (12:33:42): i have another idea on top of this though

Jesse McPherson (12:33:58): ok, i want to keep talking to you about this, you have had great input

XMPP Citation Cross Reference Handle CNRI Internet Standards Process